my thanks to governor george pataki for waking up way too early with us, "morning joe" starts right now.

♪ ♪ up from ground zero, in memory of the attack on the twin towers that took place eight years ago today, now live pictures we'll go to ground zero this morning where they're still working on rebuilding, if you can believe that as well. but today we remember what happened and how everything changed eight years ago today. 6:00 on the east coast, i'm mika, along with joe scarborough. >> we were all in different places on september 11th, mika you were down there and saw some of the worst of it. i wasn't, so when i came up here a month later, and looked around and surveyed it, it was -- it

was, you know, it was downtown was almost like a church. people were quiet, you walked there. there was great reverence for everything. everybody that went down there came down there to do one thing, to pay respect to the dead. and i was driving down, driving david down, my friend david down, who had never seen it, this past weekend. wanted to show him downtown ground zero, we go down there and i'm explaining, there was so much reverence and boy, new york came together, america came together. it was a remarkable time. and it was all to remember these people that had died. and as i drove down there mike barnac barnacle, i saw a crane and i'm driving past there and i'm thinking, i haven't been there in about a year, they've done nothing down there, nothing. and it just infuriated me, eight

years later. i don't know if it's a complete lack of leadership. i don't know if it's greed. i know it took them eight years to shake -- you know, be shaken down by somebody in pennsylvania to put a memorial up on a patch of land. this is disgusting. i don't give a damn if they build a building there or not. if they're too stupid to come together, too greedy, to lazy, whatever it is, fill it in -- pay them and put a green -- green in a reflecting pool where we can go and family members can go to think about their loved ones. >> it's all those things that you just said in terms of politics and what's leading to the delay. there's also a lot of emotion on what exactly should be there and how exactly to remember how many different lives were lost, too. >> but eight years later. people having to peer at a hole in the ground. >> it's jarring to see still this huge scar of earth,

relatively untouched, cleaned up obviously. all of the debris removed, obviously. but still, you're right, eight years later, the fact that it is now an argument of politics and environmentalists and memorialists and what ought to be there and what ought not be there, and it's everything that happened on september 11th, the country coming together. we can't come together over a memorial 124. >> i don't i don't think the families that suffered eight years ago, i don't think they're giving a damn about the hole in the ground. my sister-in-law was in the 70th floor pregnant, ran down 70 flights of stairs, made it out, thank god. and has a little boy who started second grade a couple days ago, who wouldn't be here otherwise. so a lot of people thinking grateful for people that are still around, and missing people

who aren't. >> pat buchanan in washington, jump in. >> well, john, i think what you're talking about, it does seem appalling that this crater still exists down there at the ground zero. when you consider that our grandfather's generation up there in new york, i think put together the empire state building and built it from the floor all the way up in about a year during the great depression. that was a can-do nation. and i think this is a really a reflection, a lot of the divisions and things that we've got in society today, that really impede the kind of progress we used to be able to make with a couple of decisions. >> a year to build the empire state building, in the heart of the great depression. and they can't fill in a hole. >> what pat just said, also, i don't think we talk about it enough, all of us. it is from september 11th, i would estimate through christmas of 2001, this country had unified purpose. we felt as if we were moving

together to a singular goals of finding and defeating the people who came here and did this to us. and now you get the feeling that the country is so divided, so torn. so loud with one another. i don't want to -- you know, pick on the guy any more than he's been picked on. but shouting -- >> a good editorials will do that for you. >> it's jarring. >> yeah. >> you know, joe, i got a column that's up on drudge this morning, is america coming apart? and we mention what joe wilson said and the screaming and calling the demonstrators last summer, fashionists and evil-mongers, it's not simply that americans disagree with each other, it seems like they're coming to detest one another in a lot of ways in their behavior politically. not only politically, but on racial issues and social issues and cultural issues. the old unity we used to have even when we disagreed sharply,

politically. is really gone. you really ask yourself what is it that really holds us together as a people? >> well, you know, mika, it is a great day to think about it. and i don't usually blame the media. i think it's easy to blame the media for everything. i think usually americans get the media they deserve. i don't think that's the case any more. i think in this season there are people that make tens of millions of dollars by dividing this country. by preaching hate on the far right and preaching hate on the far left. and instead of focusing on things that bring us together as a country, they make their money, they drive their ratings, they sell their books by actually making up issues, exaggerating things and scaring the held out of americans. who feed into it. and they get rich marching americans through the fevered

swamps of political extremism, and it's got to stop. >> i agree. we've got a lot more to talk about coming up. let's get a quick look at some of today's top stories. we'll start there. although south carolina congressman joe wilson is apologizing for calling president obama a liar on wednesday, he is not backing down on issue that triggered the outburst. posting this message on his website last night. >> i will not be muzzled. i will speak up and speak loudly against this risky plan. the supporters of the government takeover of health care and the liberals who want to give health care to illegals are using my opposition as an excuse to distract from the critical questions being raised about this poorly-conceived plan. they want to silence anyone who speaks out against it. i need your help now. if you agree with me that the government-run health plan is bad medicine for america, then i ask for your support. please go to

joewilsonforcongress.com and contribute to my effort to defeat the proponents of government-run health care. >> you know what's sad is they, at the end of it, they zoom back the camera and there were two guys holding guns to his head. and that's the joe wilson i know. that may be the joe wilson that had his opponent raise $100,000 more. >> i know someone who sent money that way. >> no, there's no doubt about it. i will say quickly, let's have a little bit of light and not so much heat. the issue has to do with illegal immigrants. here's the deal. the president is telling the truth when he says that the bill forbids giving these health benefits to illegal immigrants. conservatives are very concerned, i think rightly so. because there is not a ban on it. where for instance, a doctor or a health care provider, is not required to ask somebody, if

they're a citizen of the united states before providing that care. and as kelly o'donnell reported last night, there is enough ambiguity there that democratic leaders in the senate are very concerned about this issue, the issue that was brought up with a lot of screaming and yelling. and they're going to go back in and tighting that loophole, so imlegal immigrants can't get health care reform. >> the census bureau is offering new data on just how hard the americans have been hit by the nation's recession. in 2008, median household incomes fell 3.6%, the sharpest drop in more than 30 years. although the percentage of people without health insurance was unchanged last year. far more people who have coverage are relying on the government to get it. that is a quick look at the news. now let's get a quick look at the weather. who else would we go to, because it's raining and horrible out, bill karen with the forecast. >> this is almost the equivalent of a tropical storm moving up through the mid-atlantic.

we've got winds gusting up to 40 miles per hour, i've heard of power lines down in ocean county, new jersey. a tornado watch that's issued for this county as well. latest information, wind gusts of 36 miles per hour. rain from d.c., baltimore, philly, up to new york city today. and with the windy conditions and the rain, the airport delays later today will be significant. forecast, temperatures are cool, it's going to rain, it's windy. boston, your rain will arrive a little later today, more or less into tonight. and in case you're wondering about saturday, this storm lingers until we go through the morning hours on saturday. it won't be until sunday until we get a nice day. the heavy rain in texas over the drought area and anyone traveling west, it is still summer, it will be 100 degrees in sacramento today, have a good weekend. >> we'll be heading out west. won't we? >> we're going out west. we're going to the reagan library. we'll have our show from there monday. it will be in front of an

audience. mike barnicle, willy geist. >> it's hard to play poker when somebody is sitting in your lap, because they can always see your cards. >> if you want more information, about to the reagan library for more. >> you're throwing out the first pitch to the dodgers ball game next sense. can't wait see that. >> going to be very exciting. and also, it will be a great week. >> 50 most powerful women. >> in america, and you're one of them. >> is your wife going? >> no, no, no. >> i'm doing something there. >> you are or something. >> and your wife is, right? i'm going to talk to her. i have some things i need to share with her. >> we think you're one of the 50 most powerful women on the set, sort of. >> she's the third most powerful person in the world. >> according to a british

newspaper. >> that was a good year for you. >> all right. coming up, minnesota governor will join us and the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory. joe klein has a new article predicting what will happen following president obama's health care speech. plus an exclusive look at politicos top stories this morning and we'll also have a report on cell phones. >> this is frightening. nbc has a report on this. a new investigation and it's frightening about cell phones, mike barnicle, causing cansing. we're screwed. >> you're watching "morning joe," good-bye starbucks. (woman) dear cat.

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he's still going, president obama gave another speech about health care. this one, to a room full of nurses, yeah. still no word on what bill clinton was doing there. but -- >> seriously, seriously, working the statute of limitations has expired. >> oh, no. >> stop going on president clinton. >> they took a break and then they did the north korea thing, it was back in the headlines. that kind of renewed -- >> when you're in trouble, go right there. >> i will say, though, the president himself joked about it on cronkite, it was funny, two days ago, about -- >> two days ago, what? >> he joked about monica lewinsky. >> he didn't mention her. >> he was referring to.

>> jim vandehei, he's got a look at the morning playbook. let's talk a little joe wilson. the man now famous for his "you lie" comment at the president's address the other night. we've been talking about this the last couple of days, what if means for the republican party. what are the republicans saying about this? >> we talked to a lot of folks, there's definitely concern in the party, that republicans are in danger of being defined not by the power of their ideas or the power of their personality, but by the pettiness of comments like this or congressman brown up in georgia, who talked about the quote-unquote nazi policies. the stuff gets amplified, there's a huge imsentive for members of congress to say incendiary things and there's a huge incentive in the media to arch this thing up and that's bee the definition of the republican party over the last five to six weeks. and one of the top image makers

of president bush said right now the republican party is getting defined by these crackpots. whereas the democratic party, because they have obama, who has the bully pulpit, tend to get more defined by obama and this is hurting the republican party. >> jim, the question is, what we've been asking, why don't more republicans speak out publicly against it. we watched in the haul of congress the other night when death panels were brought up. and the president said it was a lie. you saw the democrats get up and clap and the republicans sat on their hands, afraid of what? to speak out against death panels. >> something has happened in the republican party where they've lost and purged almost all of their republican members, most of whom used to reside up in the northeast corner of the country. now you've got all conservative members in the house, no motivation to criticize the incendiary things, because they believe those. so most moderate voices are on

the outside. if you look at the big voices on the outside who have the air waves, rush limbaugh or glenn beck, people most popular on fox news, they tend to be super-conservative. so there's no play for mainstream republicans right now and they have no real influence in the republican party. until they pick up some swing districts and elect people who tend to be moderate. they won't have the power in the party. because of rahm emanual they've been able to broaden the party and have folks who do differ pretty wildly with the liberal who is differ with the democratic party. >> jim, i always bring this up, let's say for instance, barack obama became bored tomorrow and decided to go home to chicago, look at the democratic party then and look at the people running the democratic party.

nancy pelosi and harry reid, henry waxman, barney frank. these are people who probably have lower -- all of them, lower opinion ratings than say a dick cheney, that shows how just one leader for the republican party, one person would step forward, i keep talking about mitt romney. does mitt romney want to be president next time or not? i talk about the fevered swamps of extremism that this country is marching through. if mitt romney wants to be president of the united states, it takes somebody to step out and say -- kids, grow up. that's why, jim, this is an opportunity for a romney or a polenti or somebody else to step forward. -- pawlenty. >> it's true in theory, but i don't think there's a big appetite for that in the republican party. if somebody came in here and tried to be the adult and said, hey, let's try to work with

obama, they'd get booed down. it only works in an election. the only time that your romney scenario works is in 2012, when somebody can actually, when people feel like, okay, this person can put us in the white house, therefore we're going to follow them in a different direction. i don't think that that works right now. there's not a big call for reasoned thinking right now. people are ticked off, as you well know, conservatives are so agitated about washington and about obama, i don't think there's room for a big voice of reason right now. >> you may be right. but there's a big difference between working with barack obama and treating barack obama with respect, and debating him on the issues respectfully. because again, i could debate anybody in the administration over what they've done over the past nine months, without calling them communists. without saying they're racists. and i think that's the problem. but joe, you report up there every day. it's sort of frightening. you say there's no appetite for that at all.

>> that's bad. >> jim, thanks so much. there's another story about tim pawlenty on politico. >> what was that? >> about suing the federal government. >> he's going to be on, we'll talk to him. and i would argue that it's sad what jim says, you shouldn't want to be president to act like a leader and have a good voice. it's kind of a shame that there isn't one out there. >> i think if somebody steps forward, people will follow. will listen, will defer. >> someone who makes sense. all right, we're going to talk about cell phones, which is very depressing here. because obviously people use them every day now, a lot of us, have kids who use them. your head should hurt. researches have been debating whether the radiation from cell phones is a health hazard. here's nbc with more. >> reporter: almost everywhere you turn, someone's on a cell phone. >> i wouldn't give up my cell

phone. >> reporter: there are about 270 million cell phones nationwide. for years, some people have been concerned about what comes with this convenience. concerned because each one emits some level of nonionizing radiation, the same kind that comes from microwave ovens, it's a less-intense form of energy than the kind of radiation in x-rays. now an advocacy organization called the environmental working group, is pushing for more federal regulation. it has compiled data from cell phone manufacturers about radiation levels and posted it on its website. the group says, it usually gives about 300,000 visitors a month to the site. after posting the list this they say traffic spiked to 100,000 visitors in just one day. >> i think that speaks to the fact that consumers are obviously very interested in whether or not their cell phones are safe. >> reporter: a spokesman for the

wireless industry says the industry complies with all the guidelines. >> we rely on the conclusion of groups such as the mesh cancer society. >> reporter: the majority of scientific studies do not show any link between cell phone use and health hazards. >> the word "radiation" strikes fear into people's hearts. but the reality is that this kind of radiation is a kind that based on the physics, would not be thought to cause cancer. >> reporter: 87% of americans own cell phones. but one thing everyone agrees on, if you're concerned about radiation, you can use the phone less, or use a hand-free device. but even the advocacy group admits the phones are hard to put down. >> we're still using our cell phones, even after this work. but we're using them a little differently. a personal decision, and everything has to make their own call. rehema ellis, nbc news, new york. >> i'm worried about my kids. i will text more now. >> you should, and i'll tell you what i've been looking for for a

long time. i've been looking for a device i can stick -- the bluetooth thing. hey, good-looking, we'll be coming back to get you later on. no. but something like a headset or something you can put on and talk. and there aren't really good ones out there. >> you could be like a "time-life" operator. >> coming up -- >> your right ear is green. it is, i know. >> oh, god. more with pat buchanan and in a few minutes, tina brown on of "the daily beat." and tickets are still available to see "morning joe" at the reagan library in california. for more information, go to our website, joe.msnbc.com. we'll be right back.

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terrorist attacks. ceremonies are planned at the pentagon, in shanksville, pennsylvania, and in lower manhattan. we'll have live coverage throughout the day right here on msnbc. after several delays before the mission, bad weather in florida is now delaying the space shuttle "discovery's" return as well. mission control skipped both landing possibilities on thursday, they'll try again this evening, but more storms may divert the shuttle to its back-up landing site in california. and investigators say, a chance meeting between a seattle retail clerk and the woman who allegedly stole her identity has helped uncover a criminal ring. the clerk recognized the suspect from a surveillance photo take an week earlier when thousands of dollars were charged to her account. now at least five people have been indicted in connection to dozens ever fraud cases. time now to take a look at the morning papers around the country. >> the "washington post" eight years later, the september 11th attacks are pages in the history books to a generation that's too

young to recall them. and "the new york times," obama is facing doubts in party on afghanistan. the leading senate democrat on military matters, carl levin, wants afghans to play a bigger role before sending more u.s. troops. and the "miami herald," many lawmakers votes. and "u.s.a. today," income levels taking a beating. fees slide in 2008 for u.s. households. and the "atlanta journal-constitution" good news on flu shots, researchers say one dose of the new swine flu vaccine looks strong enough to protect adults. and the "washington post," millions more thrust into poverty. dismal census data on income, insurance. and here's "the new york daily news," talking about president obama's message, we are all new yorkers. >> oh, that's nice. that's what you do. this is the city, new york, this is -- this is what you do. >> do you remember last year on september 11th?

lipstick on a pig was the front page of the "new york post"? >> right. >> are they better. >> do you like betting on football? the "nfl post" has your nfl better's guide. and over here, you've got your 9/11 thing. >> oh, gosh, whatever, move on. coming up next, the daily beef. tina brown helps us take a look at this morning's must-read opinion pages, you're watching "morning joe." i'm walgreens ceo and i'm also a pharmacist. getting an early flu shot is the best thing you can do... to protect you and your loved ones from the flu. it's also one of the easiest things you can do... because walgreens is now offering seasonal flu shots... every day of the week with convenient hours guaranteed. so you can just stop in. our 16,000 dedicated pharmacists... and take care clinic nurse practitioners...

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we're not anywhere close to saying "mission accomplished. ". >> it's only just now that you can say that the economy as a whole is growing. and it's only growing because we

now can see stimulus finding traction taking hold, the financial system repaired. but on point, is it 9.7%? we are nowhere close to being able to tell people that we've restored their basic confidence in their capacity to find a job, keep their home, you know, put their kids through college. and that's the ultimate test of what we're trying to do. >> tim geithner just said the economy was turning around with the stimulus package? he doesn't believe that. >> i wouldn't fehr there will be another one, the president is giving a major speech on the economy, monday. here with us now, co-founder and editor in chief of "the dailybeef.com" tina brown. >> and pat buchanan in washington, d.c. >> doris writes i really think it's time for a joe scarborough candidacy for president.

why the not? mika can be the vice president, willie, the secretary of state. barnicle, the homeland security secretary. >> that's frightening. >> and pat buchanan, the import-export czar. >> that's easy. just put anti-aircraft guns up on the board. >> that's something i could get behind. >> pat buchanan i wanted to follow up on a conversation we were having before the break. where we didn't get you in. jim vandehei talking about how right now the republican party is shapeless, it's formless. as i said, it's fevered with anger. what's the answer? do we have to really wait until 2012 to have a leader emerge? >> i think to have a leader with a positive ideas and a new direction for the country, yeah. right now, joe, the republican party is really a party in opposition. the democrats control this entire city. they're dominant in both houses. they've got the presidency, they've got the media. and the republicans are

basically standing up, and resisting one of the biggest, you know, economic, or economic and political initiatives of the last decade. national health insurance. so they're in opposition, and they look like a party in opposition. >> we've got a lot of response to the joe wilson situation. which joe wilson is responding to himself as well. his screaming of "you lie" to the president in the middle of his address the other night. let me go right to the "washington post." oh, mr. wilson, by kathleen parker. it happened. and thus -- >> tina brown. the leciconic spam. >> there's a very amusing piece by a british journalist who is

says, what a bunch of prissies you are in america. we're used to in the house of commons, the total abuse and heckling time in which the president has to appear and everybody has to go at him. and he seems to complain about the fact that we've sort of elected a monarch. the head of the executive branch, everybody sit there nodding and agreeing and clapping. and he says, what's the matter with everybody here that we can't just deal with a little bit of friction. >> what do you think? somebody that grew up in great britain and used to seeing the prime minister abused once a week. what do you think? >> i like the healthy business of the gladiator nature of appearing before your peers and getting a little roughed up. there's nothing like the bubble to make you forget how people really feelth and i must say when obama entered the chamber and there was like that endless

kind of astronaut welcome that he got -- it went on and on and on. and i mean it was, you would never see that in england. >> everybody that's involved in the presidential campaign. and john kerry was telling me this last week, failed to talk about the bubble. that you get inside the bubble. you know you're in the bubble. there's nothing you can do, you're in the bubble. >> you're totally trapped. >> totally trapped in the bubble. and do -- i guess prime ministers don't really ever go into that bubble. because they step out once a week and get popped a thousand different times. >> i used to love watching margaret thatcher, she wielded the handbag, the right honorable member, she would just sling it right back. tony blair was really masterful at it. >> pat buchanan, this would add some dimension to the discussion, wouldn't it? >> it sure would. look. but here's the difference -- the

president of the united states, as you mentioned, is not only head of government, he's head of state in the united states. secondly, when you go before a joint session of congress, that's like, as mike will tell you, solemn high mass with the cardinal archbishop. that's not the time at which you go after him. however, take a look at nixon at his press conferences, which were very much like the british house of commons, all of these guys getting up and yelling at him. you can do it there, you just don't do it at solemn high mass. >> this is a political speech. this is very much a political speech. it wasn't the state of the union. it was a pitch. >> the biggest difference is that you have the queen -- and then there's the prime minister. >> absolutely. >> the president encapsulates everything here. he's royalty, he's the head of a political party. >> i think we should just reform the system. >> there is an argument for a little bit of friction, perhaps making the debate more valuable. you know -- >> i think there is sort of a

canned response now in politics. in some ways the town halls are a response to that, actually. people are so tired of the sort of managed moments, that in a sense, the kind of sweaty, noisy, mean human session out there that's real. it's really people just kind of expressing themselves and wanting to do it in a way that isn't so canned. >> how do you think the republicans -- >> i think i like the fact that they told joe to apologize immediately. i think that was a good move. but now obviously joe wilson is saying that his opponents raised over $200,000. so now he's doing the hostage tape saying, send me money, help me win. >> so they're talking about -- forget about him. >> the thing is, pat buchanan, you know this very well. people in washington get so wrapped up and consumed with things, that most americans just don't really care about. and you know, i would walk onto the house floor in the middle of the huge debates and people

would be saying, the american people want -- the american people think. the american people are angry. and i turn to my friend and say, what the held -- you american people don't even know what we're doing here. joe wilson is a snapshot in the "u.s.a. today," barack obama's another snapshot. this is just -- not the end of the world. >> it's not, joe, will et me say that they've got bumper stickers out now with the right-wingers all buying them, just saying "you lie." and you're exactly right. i was an editorial writer in st. louis as a young guy, 23 years old. i would say, the american people aren't going to put up with this. writing about medicare or something. and the editor would come in and say, pat, you can try to speak for the newspaper, but don't try to speak for the american people. and they're exactly right. you don't speak for the american people at all. >> i've got to throw this to

savannah guthrie. the american right has raised $700,000. >> that's why joe wilson was looking like he was on the hot seat. let's move from theater to actual policy here. read what the "wall street journal" said about what i predicted about from the time i heard the speech until now. this is the issue. >> an astonishing, as astonishing --

i saw tina while watching coverage on different channels, some of the 30-second commercials, talking about these numbers. cuts to medicare. really frightening for seniors. >> and the there's much gnashing of dentures about this. >> pat, it looks like the president is going to pay for this by cutting medicare advantage. that's going to be quite a political trick. >> joe, they're going to cut $500 billion out of medicare. but they're going to tell grandpa, don't worry, no problem, grandpa.

>> they're not going to pull the plug out from grandpa. they're just going to tell grandpa -- no problem. >> coming up, the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory will be with us. and up next, the first game of the nfl season goes into ot. sports, and news you can use. straight ahead. i wish i knew then what i know now. get what dermatologists now recommend to fight aging... in new aveeno positively ageless multidefense. a combination of a high spf and powerful antioxidants... designed to reduce lines and wrinkles in just 4 weeks. new from aveeno.

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yankee stadium gave out free prostate exams, of course, fans felt a little cheated because it was advertised as glove night. >> barnicle went to the game and left before the game started, just went for the prostate exam. >> the last time we saw the pittsburgh steelers, ben roethlisberger, was throwing a touchdown to send them to the super bowl. last night, they picked up right wildfire they left off. >> a better way to kick off a football season than an overtime thriller between the steelers and the titans. kerry collins found justin gate in the end zone, ties the game. it remained tied until the end. steelers driving late in the fourth. ben roethlisberger to a

wide-open hines ward in the 20. but ward fumbles. steelers got the coin toss. steelers took the opener in overtime, 13-10. to the college ranks, number 15, georgia tech hosting clemson. the tigers came roaring back. kyle parker connected with jobi porter. clemson was down 24-21, they tie it with a field goal. under a minute to play, tied 27-27. scott blair from 36 yards out, it proved to be the gail-winner. georgia tech survived a wild one, 30-27. a couple of weeks ago, the governing body for track and field demanded that south african runner. cast roe samena, undergo some tests. tests showed that she had both female and male sexon organs. the 18-year-olds had no ovaries,

but has internal male testes. how about those whackies in bail. a 38-year-old cut mid season brought in the winning runs against the reds. jason giambi, with warning track power, rockies win it 5-1. won seven straight, they trail los angeles by two games in the west. the football team is tackling a new type of opponent, swine flu. 26 players have missed practice this week with flu-like symptoms, among the candidates. although the team is hit hard by the virus, they expect to make a full recovery and hope it doesn't have any effect on their season. while the illness has a buy this weekend. not a bat day for pittsburgh sports. penguins visited president obama at the white house. pens won the stanley cup last spring. the president, given a personalized number 44 jersey, from captain sidney crosby,

posed for pictures with the stanley cup. he admitted that seeing the penguins winning the cup was bittersweet. >> i've been complaining about this. it's been a while since chicago won anything, coach and i'm not happy about that. but as many of you know, i -- have a special place in my heart for pittsburgh. and so if it can't be the blackhawks, then the penguins aren't a bad choice. >> that's it for me. you guys, have a great weekend and we'll talk to you next week. >> keeping to the chicago theme that the president just started, with news you can use, we're going to the second city to witness the power of oprah. only one person on earth could shut down the entire city. we'll show you, when we come back. canopy performance towels are designed

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did i do something? to be banished over here? >> you're so stately looking on the thrown. >> the head of the table. >> will you give us some news you can't use. >> i will. i don't consider this news can't use because it's so staggering. oprah winfrey, the most powerful woman in the history of the universe, basically shut down the city of chicago. michigan avenue, the main drag in town, closed it down for the important event of the premiere of her 24th season. now, this was significant, because about 25,000 people poured into the streets to see the first show. she had a big concert.

and she was surprised by her producers and were going to listen a little bit, because the producers had 20,000 people choreographed doing a dance to the black-eyed peas. watch a little bit of this. ♪ ♪ the power of oprah, 20,000 people doing the same thing. as mike barnicle said this morning, it's a little bit like maoist china. >> that's amazing. >> next door here, we shouldn't laugh about this. a 6-year-old was driving a car. that was terrible, it should never happen. the cops pulled over because they saw a 6-year-old was driving the car. i think you'll see why the kid was driving the car when you see the mom's picture in a mug shot.

>> no, don't make fun of it. >> it happened. >> let's see her picture one more time. she was sleeping. the cops pulled her over and said, is mommy sleepy. has mommy been smoking the sticky stuff. and the little girl said yeah, she has been. >> okay. what else? >> before we get to the top of the hour, we'll talk about one of our favorite topics, the great lewis bergdorf. he highlights his hair a little bit. >> let show you real quick. we've been doing the bubble tweets. lewis and i were kind of raiding the company refrigerator when we were caught like dateline's chris hansen. watch this. >> you look like a -- >> you look like a ford model. >> we take what we like from the tea in the refrigerator here. >> lewis, you know what?

it's like community food. >> what do you think you're doing there, buddy? >> hey, do you have your name on that? is that yours? >> that's my coffee. >> we were just getting food. >> why don't you get your own food. this is my chocolate cake. wow. >> we just got stung, way too early. weekdays at 5:30. >> in the video we showed you first there, was mika and i were trying to do a shoot yesterday. true story. lewis is standing there by the camera. this group of girl tourists and say, he looks like somebody. they go up and say, for five minutes, he's taking pictures with these people -- pretending he's a celebrity. >> how does barnicle live with lewis. he writes a note and leaves it on the desk and his p.s. is, something like, i killed a man, lewis, moved into his neighborhood. great neighborhood. it could be tough.

and dear lewis, i killed a man last night. love the neighborhood. p.s., i know you highlighted your hair. >> he did. >> he did. >> you look at it -- so now we call him sandy. >> i think lewis needs a wedgie and a good beat up. >> i love lewis bergdorf. when he's pretending to be a celebrity and kissing people? >> ha was awful. top of the hour -- >> this is big. 7:02. >> this is huge. >> it is? >> yeah, for us. >> pat o'brien -- >> welcome, pat. >> it's like old home week for me. i started my career at nbc. got 20 seconds for a story? >> that's why you covered the cronkite funeral. >> i was david brinkley's assistant. my first day in new york city, brinkley went to the elevator

operators, and remember general sanroff was the bill paly of nbc and he said, you know, pat is a good friend of the sarnoffs. for the rest of my life there, i had the first elevator. >> thanks for coming. two minutes past the hour. this is the eighth year, eight years since 9/11. we'll be marking that date as well throughout the day. mike barnicle with us, along with willie geist and joe scarborough. oh, pat buchanan still with us from washington as well. talking about bumper stickers. >> first, a quick look at some of the nation's top stories, the nation will pause this morning to honor the thousands of lives lost eight years ago when the nation came under terrorist attack. moments of silence will be held throughout the country. we'll have live coverage throughout the day here on msnbc. although south carolina congressman joe wilson is

apologizing for causing president obama a liar on wednesday, he's not backing down on the issues that triggered the outburst. posting this message on his website last night. >> i will not be muzzled. i will speak up and speak loudly against this risky plan. the supporters of the government takeover of health care and the liberal who is want to give health care to illegals are using my opposition, as an excuse to distract from the critical questions being raised about this poorly-conceived plan. they want to silence anyone who speaks out against it. i need your help now. if you agree with me, that the government-run health plan is bad medicine for america, then i ask for your support. please go to joewilsonforcongress.com and contribute to my effort to defeat the proponents of government-run health care. >> pat buchanan, what do you think about the hostage video? joe wilson feeling like a political hostage. his opponents raised $700,000,

since he shout "you lie." >> pat? >> there's a hard core out there. and i think those folks will be contributing to joe wilson coming out to defend him. because you know, those, that 15 or 20% of the country is boiling with rage over this health care thing. it is very down on barack obama. there's a constituency out there that will not agree with what joe wilson did, but back him to the hilt. i'll bet he's raising as much money right now and else where as his opponent is. >> if he's doing those videos. >> so much for the apology. >> he did make the apology. >> i'm sorry, i will not back down. send money. >> a silk purse out of a sow's ear, joe. >> factually. the obama administration hopes the fallout over the outburst will trigger more support for its push for a

health care overhaul. as the president continues to press ahead, his critics say he's taking a decidedly partisan approach. >> since the recession intense fied last september, the situation has grown worse. over the last 12 months, it's estimated that the ranks of the uninsured have swelled by nearly six million people. that's 17,000 men and women every single day. and we know that during this period of time, the number of adults who get their coverage at the workplace has dropped by eight million people. >> i don't think you reach out to people by continually throughout your speech, referring to their arguments in the way that he did. and i must say, i've never heard a more partisan speech by a president in that house chamber. and i've listened to five presidents now. as a member of the house and the senate. >> wow. researchers say the new swine flu vaccine is strong enough to

protect adults with only one dose, instead of the anticipated two. that essentially doubles the nation's stockpiles. it also helps the drug concerns of predicted shortages when the vaccine rolls out in october. the census bureau offering new data in to how hard the nation is being hit by the recession. in 2008 median household income fell 3.6%, the sharpest drop in 40 years. although the percentage of people without health insurance was unchanged from last year, far more people who have coverage are relying on the government to get it. and with that, financial fallout, two top schools, harvard and yale, are now sharing an unwelcomed distinction, according to "the wall street journal," the endowments of both universities lost a massive 30% of their value in the fiscal year ending in june, a combined drop? of nearly $18 billion. >> no, no. >> 30%? they're supposed to be the smartest guys in the world.

>> they're very smart. >> they got screwed, did bernie madoff get involved with that? >> i mean, poor-mouthing the fact that they went from $80 billion to $60 million -- >> don't cry for me, harvard. >> these schools, like nyu, every day that they wake up, when john wakes up, the president wakes up in the morning, they have to raise $1 million every day. every single day of the year. >> that's a miserable thing. >> that's hard in this climate. >> running colleges, running universities now, being a dean of the law school. it's all about raising money. it's like a nonstop political campaign. it's miserable. >> pat, we were talking about 9/11 last hour. and our reflections on it. but also i know we can't believe

they can't build a memorial in eight years. >> it's incredible. it's a piece of dirt down there and you would agree they would have something. because it is one of the biggest tourist attractions when you come to new york city, you want to see the 9/11 memorial grounds. they can't build a building and they're trying to overhaul health care? there's something wrong with that. >> politics got involved in the city. >> fill it in, grow grass over it. >> i've got to ask you something, we'll veer wildly offtrack for a minute. barnicle were talking about yesterday, talking about how you did the best halftime show we ever saw at cbs. >> thank you. >> incredible. sports nfl started last night. you see the game? >> saw the game. >> who's going to win this year? who's going to win it all? >> if i knew that i'd take your money and barnicles and go to vegas right now. but i think it will be the giants and the patriots again. >> boo!

>> you lie! >> is joe wilson here? >> by the way, the guy that booed you is from philadelphia. so -- >> the steelers might be in philadelphia. but i think it will be the giants and the patriots. barring injuries and jail terms. >> well, there's that. >> because everything is about injuries this year. the most compelling story this year i think? michael vick. >> a second-string quarterback in philadelphia. i think that's, i think a lot of people are going to be keying on that one. not brett favre. >> that's a great story, too. second chance and this country loves somebody that gets a second chance. i know that. and he is getting a second chance. now brett favre is getting a fourth chance. >> so let's talk about something else that, that we're talking about out there. pat buchanan, you've been communication director in two white houses. presidents in the past have not shot down, as you said. and they've been careful not to

over-expose themselves. this white house seems to do both. this president over-exposes himself like nobody i've ever seen and he's announcing yet another major policy speech in new york. next week. what is it, monday morning? >> seriously. enough, already. >> is it, is it -- positive? is it possible to over-exposureself as president? >> i think the president did. >> i think the democratic party had the greatest asset, barack obama, the first african-american president, all this excitement. and you save him for the big speeches. instead, they're taking him out on the road. it's like having a 30-game winner and having him throw out aaa ball on the weekends. this one weekend his audiences have gradually diminished for these town hall meetings and all of these other things.

i think they've overused him, overexposed him. although i do think his speech two nights ago, it was partisan. but i think it was very effective in terms of, after the beating he took in august, bringing his troops back together again for the battle of september. >> you know, pat, we didn't get a chance to talk to you yesterday. i disagreed with the content of the speech. but politically, i thought it was a masterpiece, and it reminded me of reagan. when reagan needed to win, he put his head down, he rallied his base and he rolled over people like tip o'neill every time. >> you're right, joe. and look, obama realizes that 99.5% of his votes, if he wins this thing, are going to come from the democratic party. he's got to talk to his left. i think he calmed down his left. he made his left basically say, okay, we're not going to get the public option. and then he's got to bring those blue dogs along. i think he did a good job. though, i think what's coming up now is republicans, you've got

to let that wash over, that victory. and then i think the republicans are going to come back for a second august. and go after this bill. once we get a solid bill. i think this thing is still a 50-50 game. >> i do, too. once we get a solid bill and you see if the money does come from so-called cuts in medicare, the bill's going to be savaged in all directions. mike barnicle, there was, i think it was david brooks wrote an op-ed this morning saying, politically, it was a master stroke. because when it came to the issues, he went to the center. he gave everyone a bill they can vote for. but he rallied the left by beating up republicans. so style, something nancy pelosi would love. substance, something max baukus could love. >> he still did not answer the question in most people's minds out there -- how much is this going to cost. >> well, that's true. and i would argue that he's not exposing himself too much on

these issues. we have a lot of serious pressing issues that confront our lives and he's getting in front of the message and i think he'll do it again on monday. pat o'brien stay with us. and coming up, minnesota governor, tim pawlenty and next, the moderator of "meet the press," david gregory will get the latest headlines out of the white house with savannah guthrie. but first, a check of the weather with bill. >> airports are just opening and not good, we're continuing to watch what's happening in southern new jersey. the worst of the weather, thunderstorms and heavy, gusty winds, the airport in philadelphia, you're looking at 2 1/2-hour delays, we just opened up at laguardia with one-hour delays, it will get worse as we go throughout the day. the big story, the storm in the mid-atlantic and all the travel trouble this morning. we'll be back with your weekend forecast a little later. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks.

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to give time, offer comfort or lend a hand, to ease the burden on a military family. let's honor their service, by volunteering ours. >> wow. >> all right. the first joint venture. that's one of the issues the first lady is taking on, helping military family, especially now, because they are so, so -- >> stretched thin. >> stretched thin to the point their families as well. >> let's bring right up from washington, our moderator, "meet the press," david gregory. and the white house correspondent, savannah guthrie. david, joe wilson. the hostage tape he released, because his opponents raised

$700,000. >> it's not an actual hostage tape. >> i think if you pull it back, you'll see people holding guns. he has a gun to his political head. has this unknown south carolina governor, eclipsed a health care speech? >> well i think a couple of things. one, i think the white house would be happy if joe wilson becomes the face of the republican argument on health care. because it will make their job easier if they want to paint the republicans as obstructionists, which is clearly the direction that they want to go. on the other hand, the fact that there's been so much time spent on congressman wilson and what he's had to say, the issue he's trying to highlight gets away from two central points that the white house wants to emphasize every day and barnicle brought it up just a moment ago. which is, they've got to emphasize to the middle of the road americans politically. that this plan can be paid for. and if you've got insurance, it's actually going to improve your situation. that's two points, that's it. if they can win on that, they likely can win health care. they're not going to do that if

they have to deal with joe wilson out there every day. >> savannah, bring us up to speed on some of the numbers, you emailed me about the $700,000 figure they've raised against him. where do they stand now? >> the latest figure we saw $700,000, since the speech raised by wilson's opponents. we've been tracking it in the last 24 hours. and the number keeps getting bigger and bigger. the congressman's office thinks they'll also see a fundraising boom, frankly. and if you look at his speech, he has a lot of comments of support. granted, it's very interesting. the other thing that's going on, a little bit of division among democrats on capitol hill. there are some democrats who think wilson ought to apologize on the house floor. that there should be some kind of formal sanction or reprimand for violating house rules. speaker pelosi is not in that

camp. she does think it was a violation of house rules, but she wants to move on. and that's definitely the feeling we get here at the white house, they want to go forward. that's what they're saying, let's put it that way. >> pat buchanan? >> david, this sounds like it could be a massive distraction. if you get everybody up there wilson made a mistake, he apologized. and you get everybody up there, the democrats getting into partisan mode again and piling on. i don't know how that helps the president in what he's trying to do. >> yeah, i don't disagree with that, pat. and you know, i think where they may be piling on is that congressman wilson is going to get a lot of support, frankly. and in releasing the web video and all the rest, i think there's people who think this is a terrible idea, terrible plan. it's reckless and way too expensive. and those are people who might even be independent-mindeding, let alone the harshest critics who somehow think the president is illegitimate and don't show

any respect for him. hea they've got a new champion. the story of the summer was the white house not staying in front of misinformation and the kind of din out there from the opposition. they can't allow it to happen any more. they don't have the time now. the president's speech was about owning this issue. owning it day in and day out. and ultimately, affecting the strategy. which according to the people i'm talking to, inside and outside the white house, is very clear, it's not about ramming it through. with just democratic votes, although that's largely the case. it's about trying to get to 60 votes, not using reconciliation. getting the 60 votes and all eyes on senator snow, of maine, to try to have her become the 60th vote. >> pat o'brien? >> let's talk about, hi, david. >> hey, how are you, pat? >> i'm great. you've got to talk about style and consistency here. if you're going to be joe wilson, who is the shoe-thrower of our country.

and yell out "you lie" you can't the next day, as i saw on barnicle's show last night, come outside your office and look like you're going to cry. if you're going to be tough, don't you have to be consistently tough in this? and now he's tough again today. but what's going to happen with joe? he's going to get -- raising how much, did we say? >> $700,000. >> if you're going to be tough, yell "you lie" once, you've got to be a "you lie" guy for the rest of your career, right? >> well, you know -- >> that's the question, come on, david. >> buchanan never -- come on. going for the jugular, you stay on the jugular, right? >> well, i think what joe does now is said, he comes out and says, i need you guys behind me. i think they're piling on. and i think his troops will rally to it. he's apologized, he's moved on. they're still after him, i think they're making a mistake. >> 72 hours ago, this guy joe

wilson, could have been a car hop at a drive-through restaurant. >> he may be again. >> and now he's famous. >> i'm wondering, i'm wondering, david gregory. does he at some point come to symbolize what's been happening too often in our politics over the past decade? it used to be that you defeat an opponent. but now -- on both sides, republicans and democrats. now it's not just necessarily defeat them. you have to destroy them and demonize them. could he become a symbol of this sort of demonization politics that is so taken over washington? >> you know, i think it's an important point. and i actually think that he's a symbol, he's just the latest example. if you go back to the presidency of bill clinton. where you saw this first started. and you go to the presidency of george bush, i covered him up close. he would encounter people, liberal, who thought he was evil. talk about demonizing, lying, an

illegitimate president. and you fast-forward and look at this president, what's being said about him. the education speech. the notion that a president saying to students, work hard, stay in school and take responsibility for yourself because we have expectations of you and that's spreading a socialist agenda. i think there's a growing disrespect for the presidency. and somehow it's become okay to speak about our president, republican or democrat, as illegitimate. i think it has a real impact. >> the thing is, also, we always go back and think about how bill clinton was accused of being a murderer and all of these other things. i know pat buchanan will remember, when i was on the campaign trail, people were still talking about bush 41. running drugs with the c.i.a., flying down to central america, getting coke out of central america, taking it to south-central l.a. and trying to hook african-americans. democrats in the congress even accused the old man of doing

that. this insanity has been with us for a while and sadly -- >> on both sides. >> i think, the difference, joe, is that it's amplified. it's found a way to become more mainstream than it used to. >> because there are, unfortunately, outlets that will allow that to happen. mika? >> let me get savannah back in here. the other issue we were talking about today, savannah, with the education speech on tuesday, the speech before congress this week as well and monday he goes to wall street, president obama, to talk about the financial crisis. is there a risk of overexposure again on all of these issues as we've been discussing? or is there a strategy in play? >> there is a strategy, any time i've ever asked about the issue of overexposure, are we seeing too much of the president? i really get a lot of push-back. they almost scoff at the notion. if this were the old-fashioned media environment, they say, maybe you'd have a point. but it's so fractured. you have blogs, you have nup, you have cable. so it's not really a 24-hour

news cycle, it's like a 24-minute news cycle. they had the president's big speech on wednesday night on health care. the next morning, he's out speaking about health care again. so they're not thinking that's going to step on their message. they're thinking, we got to keep him out there. keep pressing it. yes, exactly. >> they're playing to the increasingly fractured attention span in this country. he's the president of the united states. i understand that monday, september 18th is the anniversary of the economic collapse a year ago. and yet, it's like taking a fine, five-course meal and serving it so rapidly. >> i think the kids -- that might be a -- >> i still remember and i'm sure pat buchanan remembers this -- ronald reagan was a great communicator. until the day he wasn't. and i remember when, and pat, i know you remember. there's the there came a point where the magic -- went away.

overexposure is overexposure. and at some point people packed in, okay, this guy's going to give a great speech and he overexposed himself, didn't he, pat? >> when you do something like that, you become boring. and let me say about nixon. he went saying, national press conference once every six weeks. but when he went out there, the whole country was eating popcorn in front of the tv waiting for the heavyweight championship. he didn't go out to town hall meetings. this is like the -- >> the kids need to be fed. go ahead, pat o'brien. >> the problem with the 24-minute news cycle is barnicle, mr. barnicle on the show. but you know, 72 hours ago, people were thinking well maybe i will get this operation, maybe i will get health careth and now it's all about, who in the hell is joe wilson.

the issue of health care isn't even on the front page of the "new york times." >> sunday, "meet the press," who do you have on this sunday? >> we'll put health care on the front page. senators cornyn and durbin and howard dean and newt gingrich. on sunday, "meet the press" rolls on. >> and savannah, if it's friday, you know what it is? it's -- >> a rainy, horrible day at the white house. we will talk to you inside your cushy press booth on msnbcradio.com. >> joe -- >> i know -- >> a leopard print umbrella. >> we'll talk to you, soon, savannah. david gregory, thank you so much. coming up. president obama is taking his fix for health care reform to minnesota and any other state. if you want him to come to your

kids' party or bar mitzvah, he'll speak there, too, he'll be throwing out the first football at a lot of little league football games. coming up, minnesota governor tim pawlenty. we'll be right back. ♪ need a lift? hey buddy, i appreciate the ride, you know. no problem. ♪ mind if i take a shortcut? yeah, sure. ♪

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i am confident this the plan that we've put forward is the right plan for the american people. i continue to be open to suggestions and ideas from all quarters. house members, senate members, democrats, republicans -- outside groups. what we cannot do is stand pat. >> welcome back to "morning joe." here with us now, republican governor of minnesota, governor tim pawlenty joining the show this morning. >> governor, thanks so much for being with us. let's talk about the speech.

we've been talking about the speech. joe wilson -- joe wilson said the president lied. did the president lie about illegal immigration? >> well, i think joe, when you have people saying that bill shouldn't cover illegal immigrants and one side saying it doesn't, one side saying it might, there's an easy way to address that and this is to say, specifically what you mean in the bill and the fact that they refuse to do it, causes concern. and on a practical level, in minnesota and other states, we already have laws that say you can't provide certain services to illegal immigrants. but as individuals present themselves to the place of the service, if nobody asks, it becomes irrelevant, because everybody gets the service, anyhow. >> does joe wilson owe the president an apology, should he go on the house floor and apologize for his remark? >> his comments and behavior were inappropriate. the president addressing a joint session of the congress is a place where decorum should be afforded the president, respect to the office.

we should have people clapping or remaining silent. but we shouldn't have people yelling out or heckling him and he does owe the president an apology for his behavior. >> we were concerned during the speech when the talk about death panels camen. the president said it wasn't true. and the democrats applauded and the republicans stay seated. >> republicans. >> republicans, would quote pull the plug on granny, is there? >> well as you've been talking about all morning, we have a democracy and a democracy depends on an informed citizenry. the facts matter. here are the facts. you did have an earlier version of the bill, a provision that said the federal government would encourage and incentivize, end of life counseling. that concerned people to have the federal government involved in that. so it's a legitimate question. and even if that is removed, there's concerns that this thing is going to be so expensive, they're not going to be able to afford all that's promised and somebody is going to have to make a decision to cut back. and people are concerned that if the federal government does that, have them rationing care

that's a real problem. so those are not irrational concerns based on those facts. but the rhetoric -- >> there's no death panels here. counseling is one thing and having three people line up and say, granny dies, grandpa lives. you can't get there from here. >> well what happens, joe, what you call it or label it. but the facts are these, if you have a system like the united kingdom where their breast cancer survival rate -- >> but we don't, with all respect, governor, this system does not give us a system like the uk can. . i'm talking about this bill. how does this bill get us to quote death panels, you don't believe it does, do you? >> what if it becomes so expensive and the trajectory is close to what's predicted, ten years out. that they can no longer afford all that they've predicted and the federal government has to scale back and you look at how to do that. you look at examples around the world where that takes place.

there are concerns about care being cut back by a federal government institution and we could have a legitimate debate about whether or not that's good or not. i don't think it is. >> governor, what in this bill, let's be specific, but what in this bill leads us to that position, gives a bureaucrat the power ten years from now, to make that decision? i know we're going to have to make excruciating decisions on health care, you've talked about it before over the next decade, because we've run out of money in this country. but what provision in this bill specifically would lead anybody to rationally believe that a death panel might emerge in this decade, based on this legislation. >> there is nothing in the legislation that directly says that, it's the indirect concerns that i'm trying to articulate that i think are at least worth raising. >> pat buchanan? >> governor, let me ask you, this august we had a numb of these very boisterous, raucous, town hall meetings with political leaders, senators. some of them got pretty rough.

do you think on balance, those town hall meetings, rough as they were, were good for the republican party or do you agree with say senator reid, who said they were evil-mongers and a lot of these folks were racist confrontations. were they good or bad for the republican party? >> i think they were good for the country and good for party, in the sense that those were the voices and sounds and passions of democracy at work. and again, we need to have a debate that's rational. that's informed and otherwise we can't have a functioning democracy. but a little passion, a little energy is a good thing. a lot of it is a good thing. we need to make sure that the information being conveyed is accurate and not hysterical. >> mike barnicle? >> governor, i'm in benevolent mood here soitis going to give you a shot at a roo do here. i think i heard you say in talking with joe that you fear in ten years, that's a pretty snap period of time, it will come very quickly. that in ten years, because of

lack of funds or shortage of funds, we might have government bureaucrats looking at me telling me -- i got to die. do you really think that might happen? >> well we do know this, mike. let's just be clear, the facts matter. in places like canada, like the united kingdom, they do prioritize what procedures get done in what order based on health conditions or age or similar measurements and there's waiting lists for things. and so it is not irrational to say, if this thing becomes so unaffordable and you put the federal government in charge of it, somebody is going to have to limit either its cost or the volumes of procedures. and if that somebody is the federal government, that concerns people. that is not a crazy idea. now does the bill say there's death panels? no. does the bill say that somebody's actually going to say you have to live or die? no. but the indirect concern i'm raising and others have raised are not irrational. so we can have an informed reasonable debate about that. without one side or the other

calling people names. >> one issue that's going to be key for president obama if he's going to pass the bill, that is the cost of it. i've looked at the numbers, he's talking about waste, fraud and abuse. claim that's going to pay for two-thirds of the bill. that's just not going to happen. how does the president end up paying for this bill? over the next ten years? >> well those numbers, as you know, you just said, are complete crock. nobody believes them. you don't believe them. i don't even think the president's administration fully believes them. they're not going to get the money out of waste, fraud and abuse. so what they're going to do is raise taxes or cut services. it leads right back to the discussion we had just a moment ago. >> governor pawlenty, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. >> hey, governor, are you ever in new york? >> once in a while. >> come on set. and if -- if -- if barnicle's in a malicious mood, we'll sit you next to me. >> he's a hockey guy. >> absolutely.

>> governor, pat o'brien, i fish in mantrap lake up there. a fantastic place to fish. >> that's outstanding, i'd love to be with the benevolent barnicle. >> it doesn't exist. >> put that on a bumper sticker. thank you, governor, so much. >> we'll kiss his ring. all right. >> pat buchanan, thank you as well. coming up, the editor of the "new york times" both of you and the week review, san tanenhaus will join us. and next week, we're live from the reagan library in california. you're watching "morning joe," brewed by starbucks. [ woman ] dear cat. gentle cat.

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why doe need to wreck this company? because it's wreckable, all right? i took another look at it, i changed my mind. if these people lose their jobs, they got nowhere to go. >> my father has worked there for 24 years, gave him my word. >> it's all about bucks, kid. the rest is conversation. >> all right. this week, oliver stone, thinking of filming the sequel to "wall street" just in time

for the one-year anniversary of the lehman brothers collapse. talking about plot times, the editor of the "new york times" book review and the week in review, sam tanenhaus is back, and he's also the author of of the new book, "the death"the de is out. great book. >> yeah, and i was in washington for a few days, and seemed to stir things up there. what we did in the week in review, we went to some of our great business reporters and we asked them to write a script for the new wall street based on the lehman brothers collapse. one doesn't wanted to be flipped because there is an enormous anniversary we are thinking about soberly, september 11th. but if you look at the news

coverage a year ago, it was also as if the world ended. it was the same kind of catastrophic reaction to the huge thing. and so we just have gone to grechen and a few other people and asked what should oliver stone do now? >> what are the plot lines? >> what do you have in week in review? >> a great piece by john burns, who may be just the greatest. he writes about a reporter in afghanistan that was captured and escaped. when the reporters pay the price, it's not so much the western reporters but their own that gets beheaded and shop. >> what about the book review?

>> well, "asking the question why are you liberal," and it's reviewed by a brilliant writer. he says no matter what -- he takes norm on. and you remember tillman from the arizona cardinals, and he gave up a lot to go fight over there. he was killed by friendly fire. it was covered up. we all know the story. dexter looks hard at the

biography. he is great. >> we need to have dexter back. >> yeah, dexter is great. >> go back eight years today and you see how it influenced so many peoples' lives, good and bad. and just like doris goodwin. >> yeah, you talked about a great heroic moment. and back in those times, any heroic moment was not lost on the american public. just a tragedy. put that story out there and it's good. >> remember, tillman's father led the charge, and he said the army is not telling the truth, and here is what happened. that was a turning point in the bush administration. this is somebody that came out of the heartland -- >> is there a bombshell in this

book? >> pardon me? >> is there a bombshell in this book? >> i shouldn't say. >> that means there is. >> that's not fair. i spent two days in washington, which was an eye-opener. and i am going to the clinton school in little rock, and i will do the miami book fair, which is a big deal. >> are you going to highlight joe wilson on the week in review? >> i believe we should. people who are not getting the details, the ins and outs of policy sat in the back and called the president a liar. when he apologized, he said he had not been civil. well civil society is the bases

of conservatism that i write about in the book. we'll be right back with "morning joe" plus live coverage of the september 11th memorials right here on msnbc. there was a time i wouldn't step out of the house without my makeup. now, it's no problem. (announcer) neutrogena tone correcting night serum with high performance soy to even skin tone and active retinol to speed cell turn over.

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welcome back to "morning joe." a couple minutes before 8:00 here on the east coast. let's start our tour across the country in beautiful los angeles, where it's almost 5:00 in the morning. and the gateway to the west, st.

louis, missouri. check the travel advisory in washington, d.c. you will be delayed at the airport. looking at the white house. and then we bring it home today, september 11th, 2009, eight years ago the worse terror attack in the history of america. ground zero. >> and we, of course, mika is here. >> we have pat o'brien, and mike barnicle along willie geist and me. >> yeah, and pat and willie's dad worked together at the olympics. your dad, you -- >> i studied with his father. >> and i sent bill on assignment and i studied under your great

father. >> he was your professor, too? >> yeah. one of the great minds in foreign policy. not only could he transform foreign policy, he knew how to change when change was needed. not many like that. >> he has been everywhere. >> he worked with david brinkley. he used to do a great brinkley impersonation. >> i can still do it. >> well, good evening, everybody. the thing about david, he would never use the word like assassinated. kennedy was murdered. he was a great, great, man. >> we have joe klein standing by in washington, and we'll get to him in a moment. first, today's top stories. we honor the thousands of lives lost eight years ago when the

u.s. came under terrorist attack. the moments of silence will be observed at the white house, and the pentagon. we will have coverage throughout the day right here on msnbc. the search is intensifying this morning for a yale graduate. she was planning to be married on sunday. the university says there is no evidence of foul play. her credit card and cell phone was left in her virus. now, the swine flu vaccine is strong enough for just one dose instead of two. let's go to joe klein and the latest issue of "time" magazine. he writes this.

>> thank you so much for being with us, joe klein. you think the debate this past summer created a malignancy that threatened the fabric of the country. explain. >> can i say before that since it's september 11th, eight years ago today, nine of my neighbors did not come home and i want to tell their widows and children we are still thinking about that, and the firefighters and police officers, it was a day that hit me like a 10-ton truck and it should not be forgotten. >> thank you, so much.

>> as for the malignancy, i was in arkansas and a state where the parality of voters that do not believe that barack obama is a u.s. citizen. most of them did not believe a word that was being said about the bill. most of them thought that the president of the united states is some kind of subversive. we could have arguments about this bill, because there are things in it i don't like. there are really good conservative arguments with proceeding against universal health care in this way. i don't agree with many of them and those arguments exist and that's where the debates believe. it should not be on the craziness that is not in the bill. >> you talk about the malignancy, and let's talk about the bush years. i know a lot of people, not you,

but a lot of people hate when i bring this up. during the heart of the bush years, one poll showed 1 in 3 americans believed bush had something to do with september 11th, and buildings being blown up. you yourself saw the anger from the left when you were talking about how it's going well in one of the wars. you were torn apart for telling the truth. >> yeah, i think it's the new fabric of the media environment. when moveon.org, do you remember the ad was sent out about the

general. >> i am sorry. i have somebody talking in my ear. i just want to make sure i get this. did you say the democratic party went along -- >> they spoke out? >> no they didn't. you had rahm emanuel accusing petraeus of being a liar. and hillary clinton sat back. they did not step out and distance themselves in that ad for weeks. >> take a look at the vote. >> they were frozen in place for weeks, joe. i am not upset with you. let's not re-write history. let's look at what rahm emanuel said himself about general petraeus. >> i think if you go back and look at it, joe, you will find that there were a great many democrats, and maybe not all,

but a great many of them that stood up and said that was a bad thing to do. i know i certainly did, as a columnist. >> sure you did. >> on the republican side, we have had a history of people criticizing rush limbaugh, and then rush limbaugh comes backs and slams them and then they backtrack. govern we have a system where doctors are rewarded for performing test and test after test on people. what we need -- the reform that we need in the bill that is not in there is to pay doctors by salaries so they give the elderly the treatment they need

and not everything though don't need. >> i like -- i was surprised the other night when they brought up death panels and they did not rise up. was everybody surprised that tim fought me off a death panels like he did? the majority of republicans must believe that there are death panels. >> you put the direct questions to a number of republicans, and nobody would say no, no death panels. >> it's nonsense. i don't get it. >> there is a in direct concern ten years from now. >> i bet i know, and it's this, and the governor sounds fairly reasonable.

what has to be in the numbers telling people who oppose health care, largely republicans, is that you can scare people, you can scare people like using phrases like death panels. you don't have to get to the cost. you can scare them off by the death penanels. >> you can't come up with a more scary phrase than death panels. >> in 1995 and '96, we accused democrats of mediscare. and it was relying on fear, scaring senior citizens to win votes. now we find out both sides do it. >> but the fact is, you know, democrats certainly use medicare and -- as a scare tactic in the

'90s. in the off year elections, especially 1998. there is something going on here right now. you have a portion of the republican electoral -- they don't hear that he is a u.s. citizen. but you don't hear people saying we don't agree with the president on health care but let's attack it on principles and not all the nonsense. you have people out there encouraging the republican base to believe that the u.s. states president is subversive. >> i have a question about 9/11, with all the talk about dick cheney, of course we have not been attacked since then. we need to know what was going on september 10th. that's the day we need to find

out what all these people were doing to prevent september 10th? any thoughts? >> well, the truthers that say it was a bush plot to launch a war with iraq. they are out of their minds and they should not be included in rational debate. but there were a lot of people, sandy burger, and president clinton himself that told the administration that the real threat was not from any state, but from the stateless terrorists from al qaeda. the bush administration did not respond. dick cheney was running foreign policy during the first term saw the threat in traditional terms, state based. iraq and iran. and they said russia was coming back in the first eight oer nine months. they were not looking at the al qaeda threats. and then bush got information

from the cia that said an attack was imminent. it did not focus on the 21st century threat. >> mike barnicle? >> wonder boy, here, joe. >> no, golden boy. >> okay. golden boy. comment on the interesting similarities between september 11th and monday, the president of the united states on september 18th coming to give a speech on the one-year economic collapse. both of them, september 18th last year, and september 11th, very few people saw either event coming. >> yeah, as a country the default position is peace and

prosperity. it's hard for us to imagine horror because it has so infrequently went visited on us. we have two big oceans separating us. and we were not vigilant enough. the regulatory scheme, as far as financial sector was concerned was completely abandoned. it was starting with bill clinton and larry summers and the ones that began the banks to do whatever they wanted. the interesting thing in both cases, though, i am optimist bk this country always, that once the horrible thing happened, and once september 11th happened and september 18th happened, the government got tracking and took action against it. we have not had another september 11th since. you can say whatever you want about the bank bailout or stimulus package, but it seems that government action moved us

away from the cliff to a more stable place. the economy has a lot of -- there is a lot of way to go to improve in terms of the unemployment and so on, and at least the bottom did not fallout and that was because of government action. and that seems to me that it's a lesson americans should learn. washington is not mars, but a place that we try to act on behalf of people and sometimes we succeed. >> i want to go back to the issue of betray us and general petraeus.

this is pelosi. she went on to say that he was a de facto spokesperson for the policy, and she failed to criticize the ad that said he was untruthful. >> and when did rahm say what he said? he said it on the house floor. i am not -- i don't want to dredge this all back up. joe, i am not throwing you into this batch. but there are some people on the left that act like barack obama is the first president who has had to suffer the arrows of this sort of abuse.

while i have been very critical of george w. bush and books and articles and everything else, i think like you i was sickened how he was attacked, and clinton, we -- the republicans went over the top on him. how do we break the cycle of madness, of rage? >> i think that we have to -- we have to look to ourselves, because we are the conduit for this stuff. >> there are extremists that get rich by pushing the bs by americans that get scared from both sides. >> well, that's true. and there are people in our business who, you know, who are

just stoking the fires. fox news is doing it. >> you focus only on the right? but it's on the right and the left, joe. >> yeah, it's on the left. but i think the more serious problem has been on the right. >> yeah, because there is a democratic president right now. but when there is a republican president, the bigg eger probles on the left. i would walk up and down the streets on the upper west side, and people would be trying to sell pictures of bush as hitler. the west side. >> yeah. with obama it's far more personal and different. with george bush you had a president that took us to war under false pretenses, and abandoned --

>> sounds like you are justifying hate speeches on the left. >> no, i am not. listen, i am the one that criticized -- i am the one that brought up the petraeus ad and said that was over the line. but the fact is, you had a republican party 20 years ago when george h.w. bush was president. it was a creative organization. now you have the party dominated by these kinds of scarless -- this kind of starless nonsense. democrats may be wrong and the left may go over the line. if they have a bias, it's towards policy and undue idealism. >> oh, my god, joe -- joe -- a gallon of kool-aid for joe. they were not worried about policy when they were calling bush hitler and saying he was a

nazi. >> yeah, but the arguments against bush and iraq and tax cuts for the wealthy and so on were based on substance. >> no, that's because of your ideology. speaking of bill clinton, bill clinton ran around back in the '90s saying guys like me wanted to throw grandma in the street so we could give tax cuts to the richest americans. he repeated that for a year. it may be shocking to some on the left, but there are still those of us that believe if you cut taxes and give more money back to more americans, they make wise investments and that grows the economy. we can have the debate whether you believe in that or not. you can't say to tax the rich we hate grandma. that's reckless. >> you know, the fact is that

those kind of heinous arguments happen in the republican party, and they are far more of a major chord. i think a lot of this, especially out in poor middle class white americans are facing racial fears. >> i love this discussion. i disagree with you. i hope you come in on set, and we can take this up next week. >> absolutely. i will be here. >> joe, what are you listening to right now? any new pands? >> we are going to the austin city limits festival in two weeks. you know who is great? a black joe lewis and the honey bears. >> joe, stay for the round stable, if you can. >> i will. we will check in on business before the bail with cnbc's erin

burnett. after the break, editor of the new book "the capitalist vibe" will join us. first we go to bill karins with a check on the forecast. the airports are a mess from philadelphia to new york and into new york city. right now delays are 2 1/2 hours in philadelphia. it's getting worse as we go throughout the day. the forecast is difficult travel this morning and this afternoon it will probably be bad, too. we'll give you updates throughout the day here on msnbc. you are watching "morning joe" brewed by starbucks. [ woman ] dear cat. gentle cat.

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when you come back and sit in the chair next year, what i

want to know is will more americans have jobs and have jobs today? >> absolutely. absolutely. and we are going to make progress. it will not be even and quick. i think things will hear unacceptbly hard for a period of time. but because we want to fix it right, it's going to take a while. >> wow. that was treasury secretary, tim geithner on cnbc last night. and here we have the editor of the new book, the "capitalist's bible." >> when you have people come around the table all the time, and so many people cannot explain what happened on september 15th. geithner is up there talking and he is the expert. he was part of it.

i am not knocking him, but there is a saying, nobody knows nothing. >> well, wall street tries to make things more complicated than they used to be. now there are pools where you can't find who owns the mortgage. >> well, they obviously could not catch up with these people. madoff slapped them around. is that what it's about? >> well, these are very, very smart people. they have, you know, physics degrees and rocket science degrees. they have a way to get around what the rules and regulations are. and then regulators play catch

up, and that's an unfortunate aspects of where we have been in the last ten years. >> let's go back 22 years, what has happened. '98, '99, 2001 enron, and 2004, fannie and freddie. why have we had so many booms and bust coming out of such a rapid rate? >> well, i had no idea that i was going to be for 10 or 11 years writing about nonstop scandals. it's about very large pools of capital that are free to trade wherever they can make the biggest return. >> '98 was the asian crisis. they move around the globe. but they are centered on wall street, right?

>> well, wall street, it's the conduit. everything flows through here. now that we are picking up the pieces after the debacle in the credit market. wall street is the center of where people are angriest, and americans are enraged about why they are picking up the tab for what these people designed and devised. >> do you have a question? >> yeah, i wonder about when you think that they -- the deregulation -- >> is that a no, joe klein? you don't have a question, do you? >> yes, i do. regulations freed up the economy. but at a certain point across the line and it permitted these kinds of scandals to start happening, and was that line? where should we have stopped

deregulating? >> i don't think it's a question of deregulating. i think it was a question of regulators that had no appetite to regulate. i don't believe that we need more rules and more regulations. this is a heavily regulated industry. we just had people that did not have the fire in the belly to go after these people. >> and the fec, who is already a libertarian. >> yeah, there was a sense this was not an aggressive approach. >> yeah, i guess so. >> and we had a very, very good stock market. nobody was complaining. this is the unfortunate thing, and warren buffett says you only see who is naked when the water goes out. the water went way out unfortunately. >> let's go back to "the capitalist's bible." >> well, this is to make the

system approachable to people who are maybe not financial experts. i think it's a good moment in time to look at the history of capitalism in this country. we are questioning it severely right now because of the problems that we are going through. you hear this everywhere. it's capital, and is it dead? it brought us to the brink of the terrible financial collapse. i think it will help people understand that there are booms and busts, but capitalism is the best way to create jobs and not something that we should abandon here? >> thank you. stick around for the round able. coming up next, cnbc's erin burnett. keep it here. >> we will try to hold barnicle, but i think he may be going back to boston. >> you are? you are leaving.

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all right. it's time to get a check. speaking of the capitalist bible, it's time to get a check, business before the bill, with the capitalists superstar, cnbc's erin burnett, and live from the capitol. >> yeah, it's foul and nasty down here. we have data just crossing. this is one of those things where context is everything. it's prices. are they going up sharply, so the fed may have to move interest rates earlier than they would like to. and if prices keep falling, that could have it's own set of things. and there was a surge in august, and the reason for that is oil.

oil prices and gasoline prices, as we know, went up. if you take that out, the number doesn't look as bad. and if you compare prices to a year ago, that might give a more accurate tale, and that's prices are down 15%. we are still living in an irn environment where we have a lot of excess capacity, and the pressure appears to be down and not up. even though oil prices went up, that's the headline right now. and market right now, digesting all of this. will be flat at the open. and obviously, september 11th, that's a day where you get a lot of reflection on wall street. a lot of moments of silence, because it's a day that has a special nature to it on wall street. the other thing we have been talking about here, our conversation last night where we

hosted a town hall with the treasury secretary last night, and guess what? your taxes are going up. >> how is that? >> they are going up. that's what he said. >> you look at the burden that most americans are carrying in taxes especially in new york and california, what is another 4% maybe 5%. i want to work around the clock to give the government more money. >> yeah. they said that -- they don't have an answer on taxes. i will be honest. they say we don't have an answer, but we promised not to raise it on 95%. and the question is can 5% absorb everything? probably no. >> if they raise taxes, there

will be a political impact. >> thanks, guys. i will see you on monday. what you are looking at now are the ceremonies beginning in three locations. ground zero, and the pentagon and the white house. this is the remembrance of the attack on the pentagon and twin showers eight years ago today. joe klein, everybody has their story. this hit your town personally, didn't it? >> yeah. what i remember that day is an unbelievable feeling of citizenship in the town. they put together a schedule of making meals for the families for about a month. and then we found out they needed shovels and gloves at ground zero, and people went out and bought out home depot and

brought them down to the fire station. there was a real feeling of solidarity that came out of that in addition to the horror. >> what you are seeing now are bagpipers and drummers. this is the white house. they are having ceremonies there remembering the attacks on 9/11 eight years ago. >> gretchen, you were there. >> yeah, i lost my brother-in-law. my husband, who is a trader, lost a number of friends. we went to a series of wakes. it was very difficult. this is a moment where people really reflect on the good guys on wall street. i often write about the scoundrels, but there were a lot of good men and women. >> you are so emersed in that community, this tragedy is close

to you and your husband. i guess everybody on wall street knew somebody that died that day. it just shattered that community? >> you bet. >> and willie, you -- actually, you had a sister-in-law that was on the 70th floor. >> yeah, my sister-in-law was pregnant and ran down 70 flights of stairs and got out of the building. and the boy she just had is 7 and entering second grade, and a little bit of a miracle. and then guys would drive to the train station and park their cars, and the last image is because those cars sitting there for a week because there was nobody to come and pick them up. >> this is happening at ground zero right now in the rain. >> of course, mika, you were down there on september 11th,

and stayed, i guess, for a week. >> a couple weeks. >> two weeks. you were working at cbs at the time. you ran down 70 blocks with a cameraman? >> yep. i was down there with byron pits. we hid in a school and reported on the events as they unfolded. >> you never really talk about this. i just learned this a couple weeks ago. you were -- the building was falling and you were just standing there in a days and byron grabbed your hand and threw you under a car. >> well, he pooled me away because i was locked in the moment. a building come down in front of you took my brain a few moments to believe was actually happening. we ran from the plume of smoke and ash and debris, and then got

into a school and got to work and reporting on the story was the best refuge from the reality, actually. but eight years later now, we still remember. there are some interesting pieces in the paper this morning about how this event effected young people who remember it. pre-9/11, versus post 9/11. it's interesting to see how it affects the young people let alone the people that there were there or lost somebody. we are counting down to the moment of silence. >> joe, obviously, we are counting down. we have a minute and a half. but talk briefly about afghanistan. obviously it was the most immediate foreign policy impact out of this terrible day? >> well, you know, the sad thing is that we lost track of afghanistan through the middle years of the decade. now the fighting there, i have

been talking to some military people the last few days. the taliban are so much better organized than they were in the past. there was a nine-hour pitch battle a few days ago. you didn't see that kind of thing for many, many years. our kids are saying that it's like fighting the marines pn >> all right. we are now looking at several ceremonies. if you are joining us right now, taking place in three different locations, ground zero. the bagpipes are part of the ceremony remembering the attacks on the twin towers eight years ago today. there is going to be a reading of the names, of the thousands of victims coming up. before that, we will recognize, along with the white house and their ceremonies there, the ceremony at the pentagon and ground zero, at 8:46 eastern time, a moment of silence, which will mark the very moment the

first plane struck the north tower, and our world was changed for anybody that was there and anybody that is an american. let's listen in on now and respect that moment when the first plane hit. ♪ >> eight years we have come together to commemorate this anniversary. just as our hearts return to those that we lost, we also remember all of those who

spontaneously rushed forward to help, however and whom ever they could. their compassion and selfless acts are etched in our city's history, inspired by what they did that day. president obama has designated 9/11 as annually recognized national day of service and remembrance. and appropriately, the city of new york has been the first to take up that call. from this day forward, we will safeguard the memories of those that dies by rekindling the spirit of service that lit our city with hope and helped to keep us strong. ♪

>> eight years ago, countless people played a part in history by doing something to help another person. probably somebody that they did not even know. nobody stopped to ask if i can only do a little, should i bother doing anything at all? each act was a link in a continuous chain that stopped us from falling into cynicism and despair, reflecting on all she has seen in her life and from the halls of justice, the recently retired supreme court justice sandra day o'connor said